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Bluesfest Data Mining - RFID Options
heffegg
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 10:47:13 AM
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RFID Issues:

1. No warning OR choice regarding $3.50 activation fee - this should be included in the ticket price. Interesting new way to rip everyone off.
2. Scan on entry - exit - they can track everybodys movements to-from the festival.
3. Scan for drink - they can track who drank what and when.

Yet another compromise of an individuals privacy and personal information.

Shame on you
mpember
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:20:57 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 11/16/2008
Posts: 559
Points: -300
heffegg wrote:
RFID Issues:

1. No warning OR choice regarding $3.50 activation fee - this should be included in the ticket price. Interesting new way to rip everyone off.
2. Scan on entry - exit - they can track everybodys movements to-from the festival.
3. Scan for drink - they can track who drank what and when.

Yet another compromise of an individuals privacy and personal information.

Shame on you


I agree that the cost of operating the payment system should be absorbed in the price for the drinks.

It is my understanding that it is possible to not register personal details against the RFID tag being issued. Only those wanting to get a refund for unused credit, or top up their account with a credit card, are required to create an account. As such, there may not be a link between a specific RFID tag and personally identifiable data.

The scanning on entry / exit is not unlike almost every event venue in Australia. Those wanting to exit a venue during an event are required to scan their ticket upon exit. Failure to do so would risk having their ticket flagged as a duplicate / fake ticket upon reentry.

As for the drinking habits, the best thing to do is to spread your purchases between multiple venues and multiple drinks. Try throw off their data by making a random purchase of a soft drink or light beer. That will mess with their heads.

Like everything to do with 'big data', the question is what value the linking of such data to an individual is to the company. Sure, they may know that people who drink bundy are less likely to grab a GnT as the sun goes down. But with only a 5 day event and very little flexibility in their setup, it is unlikely that BF are going to be introducing demand-based pricing on day 5.

Compared to examples such as supermarkets placing nappies closer to the grog (because figures show that dads buy nappies and beer on a Friday), the few data points available in BFs system offer little value to a data mining company.
mgwfall
Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:11:10 PM
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Joined: 9/6/2009
Posts: 594
Points: -474
Thought the RFID was just for drink purchases. Don't recall anything about scanning to get in. Wristbands clearly visible like previous years, scanning just slows everything down.
Just because technology exists, doesn't mean you have to use it.
c0kebloke
Posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 3:08:43 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 9/23/2011
Posts: 919
Points: -4,457
Location: Struggletown
I had little problem getting
In & out of the venue.
Day one I asked where to get my wristband & was told it's a long way to go so just keep your ticket as proof of purchase.
Day 2 my band was a little loose & spun round so i turned my wrist & was ok in bout 3secs
On leaving I was told just go through without the scan.




They got the cocaine, oxycontin, mushrooms, marijuana
Vodka, plastic pop-off, twist one off
Yesterday I smoked, today I don't
Yeah, yeah, yeah


The Ike Reilly Assassination:Valentine's Day In Juárez
ianandhelena
Posted: Sunday, April 16, 2017 8:31:35 AM
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Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 150
Points: -954
heffegg wrote:
RFID Issues:
3. Scan for drink - they can track who drank what and when.


If you're worried about other people knowing how much you drink, you're on the wrong forum.
bambambam
Posted: Sunday, April 16, 2017 8:44:58 AM
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Joined: 11/6/2011
Posts: 812
Points: 1,303
Location: Gold Coast
Don't mind scanning in and out, just don't inject it into my right hand or forehead.

http://www.popsci.com.au/make/projects/why-did-i-implant-a-chip-in-my-hand,420012



Write a wise saying and your name will live on forever,,, Anonymous
TheLoneRanger
Posted: Sunday, April 16, 2017 11:22:38 AM
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Joined: 10/19/2008
Posts: 3,859
Points: 9,360
Location: 46* South
heffegg wrote:
RFID Issues:
1. No warning OR choice regarding $3.50 activation fee - this should be included in the ticket price. Interesting new way to rip everyone off.
2. Scan on entry - exit - they can track everybodys movements to-from the festival.
3. Scan for drink - they can track who drank what and when.
Yet another compromise of an individuals privacy and personal information.Shame on you

I do not believe in the Privacy Act.If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.

"An artist never really chooses when and where they will play.It is for promoters to make offers.It comes down as to whether tours are financially viable." Quote John Mayall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbEHzqildp8
mpember
Posted: Sunday, April 16, 2017 12:26:47 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/16/2008
Posts: 559
Points: -300
TheLoneRanger wrote:
heffegg wrote:
RFID Issues:
1. No warning OR choice regarding $3.50 activation fee - this should be included in the ticket price. Interesting new way to rip everyone off.
2. Scan on entry - exit - they can track everybodys movements to-from the festival.
3. Scan for drink - they can track who drank what and when.
Yet another compromise of an individuals privacy and personal information.Shame on you

I do not believe in the Privacy Act.If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.


Care to change your username? It seems strange to 'hide' behind the moniker of a fictional character that hide his own identity behind a mask.

Unless someone knows differently, it is possible that there is no link between the RFIDs and the ticket holder. Queenscliff Music Festival used QR-style barcodes to track entry to their most recent event. They did not require scanning when exiting the main festival grounds.

Considering that it is not uncommon for festivals to have temporary 'towers' installed to improve mobile reception for large festivals, it would be easier to track patrons by their mobile device. And thanks to the recent changes to Australian laws, that information will be kept for 2 years.

With the shopping list of agencies that have access to the information, there is a good chance the Byron Shire Council could request the metadata and generate reports on patron movements. Maccain will be pleased to know that the RSPCA are one such body requesting access to the metadata. I'm sure the local koala population will feel safer with the knowledge that somebody is tracking your movements and logging your calls.
bambambam
Posted: Sunday, April 16, 2017 1:03:53 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 11/6/2011
Posts: 812
Points: 1,303
Location: Gold Coast
mpember wrote:
Unless someone knows differently, it is possible that there is no link between the RFIDs and the ticket holder.


When we arrived they scanned in our tickets and then gave us our RFDI's so I'm thinking they "DiD" link them together but I wasn't paying attention (probably should have been) I am of a similar opinion to Ranger that I couldn't give a stuff if someone data mines me as I am basically a pretty boring person anyway. Of course if we have a change of government and move into a more dictatorial society them I'm definitely going to regret not giving a toss about these things. But for now (((((Mine Away)))))))

Write a wise saying and your name will live on forever,,, Anonymous
c0kebloke
Posted: Sunday, April 16, 2017 2:00:58 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/23/2011
Posts: 919
Points: -4,457
Location: Struggletown
It's a little late to worry bout our privacy.
Particularly if we're talking bout our "big brother" the US.
Those in the USA have been tracking every key stroke on computer & phone for years.


They got the cocaine, oxycontin, mushrooms, marijuana
Vodka, plastic pop-off, twist one off
Yesterday I smoked, today I don't
Yeah, yeah, yeah


The Ike Reilly Assassination:Valentine's Day In Juárez
lyndalgoodman0000
Posted: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 5:40:42 PM
Rank: Member
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Joined: 4/18/2017
Posts: 10
Points: 30
This years festival should be renamed "Greedfest". How many people are forfeiting big dollars cos it's too damned hard to get a refund especially if you've thrown your tag out? There should be a link on the website to the Manual Refund Form. I spent quite some time trying to find it.

I worked out that my tag would have 50c left on it after Monday night. If 50,000 people had the same, that's $25,000!! MONEY FOR NUTHIN'!!!! Well, it didn't work out that way cos guess what? They ran out of booze! Some camper mates I know went on a backstage tour. They were told that the RFID system allowed BF to know how much of each beverage had been consumed and how much they would need to bring in for the next day. Someone should have reminded them about day 5!!! I couldn't buy a JD and cola after 6:30 Monday night. How clever of them to ensure more money was left on tags after the festival.

Nothing on the site map about water stations. Why? Because you had to buy water at $4 a bottle with your RFID.

Organisers/owners have cleaned up this year. I won't be back. I don't like being ripped off!!
littlewillie
Posted: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 8:19:47 AM
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Posts: 649
Points: 1,901
lyndalgoodman0000 wrote:
This years festival should be renamed "Greedfest". How many people are forfeiting big dollars cos it's too damned hard to get a refund especially if you've thrown your tag out? There should be a link on the website to the Manual Refund Form. I spent quite some time trying to find it.

I worked out that my tag would have 50c left on it after Monday night. If 50,000 people had the same, that's $25,000!! MONEY FOR NUTHIN'!!!! Well, it didn't work out that way cos guess what? They ran out of booze! Some camper mates I know went on a backstage tour. They were told that the RFID system allowed BF to know how much of each beverage had been consumed and how much they would need to bring in for the next day. Someone should have reminded them about day 5!!! I couldn't buy a JD and cola after 6:30 Monday night. How clever of them to ensure more money was left on tags after the festival.

Nothing on the site map about water stations. Why? Because you had to buy water at $4 a bottle with your RFID.

Organisers/owners have cleaned up this year. I won't be back. I don't like being ripped off!!


Agree totally.

BF will make $$$$$ from the $3.50 activation fee, then the fact that it is difficult to get a refund on money left on the damn chip so most won't bother . As if drinks aren't expensive enough.

And yes there was no mention of the free water station on the site map, only the $4 water bottle stations.

This must be why the Buddy pack only went up $30 from last year , they're making big bucks elsewhere.
InfidelRider
Posted: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 3:31:44 PM

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Hmmm, I used cash to load mine and coordinated my alcohol purchases so that I finished up on Monday with a balance of $0.
lyndalgoodman0000
Posted: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 4:23:03 PM
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Posts: 10
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InfidelRider wrote:
Hmmm, I used cash to load mine and coordinated my alcohol purchases so that I finished up on Monday with a balance of $0.


I would have been able to do that also if they hadn't run out of my favourite bevvie. I should not have to compromise when they advertised a 5 day festival but had only 4 days supply. The whole thing smacks of a money-making exercise from go to whoa!
littlewillie
Posted: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 4:37:00 PM
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InfidelRider wrote:
Hmmm, I used cash to load mine and coordinated my alcohol purchases so that I finished up on Monday with a balance of $0.


My wife tried to do that at the top up station . Her purchases would have come to $48.50 including the activation fee but they would not give her change for $50 and told her she would have to put $50 on the chip and claim the $1.50 back later .

Friggin joke.
InfidelRider
Posted: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 5:31:25 PM

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Posts: 99
Points: 224
littlewillie wrote:
InfidelRider wrote:
Hmmm, I used cash to load mine and coordinated my alcohol purchases so that I finished up on Monday with a balance of $0.


My wife tried to do that at the top up station . Her purchases would have come to $48.50 including the activation fee but they would not give her change for $50 and told her she would have to put $50 on the chip and claim the $1.50 back later .

Friggin joke.

I had the same thing (only able to load up the card with multiples of $5), but for me, that just meant not ordering the same thing every time.
mgwfall
Posted: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 9:49:36 PM
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As someone who might only have 1 or 2 drinks the whole festival, didn't activate my RFID chip as thought the surcharge of 25-50% on 1 or 2 light beers a bit excessive, but curious to know & maybe Bluesfest management could explain the reason money could only be added in multiples of $5? Makes the "smart" technology a bit dumb if it can't handle any amount thrown at it.
RaucousReg
Posted: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 10:33:43 PM

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lyndalgoodman0000 wrote:


Nothing on the site map about water stations. Why? Because you had to buy water at $4 a bottle with your RFID.




This was bought up a few years back. As far as I know it is (still) a requirement of the liquor licence that free water is available - if it wasn't then BF would be in breach of their licence.

namaste
RR
richo
Posted: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 11:06:50 PM
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mgwfall wrote:
maybe Bluesfest management could explain the reason money could only be added in multiples of $5? Makes the "smart" technology a bit dumb if it can't handle any amount thrown at it.


Any answer that's not "to maximise unclaimed balance sitting in our bank account at the conclusion of the festival" is a flat out lie. A minimum top-up amount to cover merchant fees makes perfect sense. $5 increments and oddly priced drinks is a flat-out rort.

Guessing the ACCC will be onto this scam soon enough as it continues to pop up at more and more festivals and events around the country.
mpember
Posted: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 11:30:50 PM

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RaucousReg wrote:
This was bought up a few years back. As far as I know it is (still) a requirement of the liquor licence that free water is available - if it wasn't then BF would be in breach of their licence.

namaste
RR


This requirement is often met by making tap water available 'upon request' and then never mentioning it to the patrons. The trick is to teach your staff the act surprised that someone was asking for anything other than the lovely, fresh, bottled water with a pretty label and a picture of a babbling brook.

They certainly used to provide information about where to get free water.

http://www.showticksecure.com/BluesFest2013/VenueNet/_uploads/FCKeditor/2014%20Event%20Site%20Map%20Iain%20FINAL%20A5.JPG

Any answer that's not "to maximise unclaimed balance sitting in our bank account at the conclusion of the festival" is a flat out lie. A minimum top-up amount to cover merchant fees makes perfect sense. $5 increments and oddly priced drinks is a flat-out rort.

Guessing the ACCC will be onto this scam soon enough as it continues to pop up at more and more festivals and events around the country.

richo wrote:
Any answer that's not "to maximise unclaimed balance sitting in our bank account at the conclusion of the festival" is a flat out lie. A minimum top-up amount to cover merchant fees makes perfect sense. $5 increments and oddly priced drinks is a flat-out rort.

Guessing the ACCC will be onto this scam soon enough as it continues to pop up at more and more festivals and events around the country.


I'm going to guess that you wouldn't be pleased if BF took your advice and rounded all their prices up to the nearest multiple of $5. d'oh!

The ACCC only get involved if enough people complain.

ACCC generic response wrote:
We have recorded your report

We appreciate you reporting your matter to us. All information is potentially valuable to help us identify trends and where we can most effectively direct our resources, so we encourage you to report any behaviour or business practice that is concerning to you.

What the ACCC does with information from reports

The ACCC focuses on enforcing the laws we administer in circumstances that have the potential to harm the competitive process or result in widespread consumer or business detriment. We use reports received from the public and small business, as well as other sources of intelligence, to inform our work. When the ACCC takes action, it is to remedy market problems; we are not a complaint handling body and don’t resolve individual disputes. You can read more about how we prioritise our work and what we can and can't do for consumers on our website.
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