Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In | Register

Festival issues Options
Maccain09
Posted: Monday, February 02, 2015 11:07:34 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/12/2009
Posts: 831
Points: -1,814
Location: Palmerston,
After seeing dozens of festival goers humiliated yesterday at lane way I think It's time we finally talked about these pests and their dogs. If you are over 40 look like you are on holidays and casually dressed expect a dog handler to direct their dog to you for a "random" search harassment/public humiliation. Do we have any lawyers or folk that know a little bit about this caper to provide advice on regards to your rights as a tax payer and human being?
drwildare
Posted: Monday, February 02, 2015 10:22:32 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 10/21/2008
Posts: 291
Points: 672
Location: Ormiston, QLD
As I have said before Maccain the furkids don't bother me and the only people who have anything to fear are those who are carrying illicit (illegal) substances.


The Dr is in the House
mpember
Posted: Monday, February 02, 2015 11:14:14 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/16/2008
Posts: 543
Points: -117
Maccain09 wrote:
If you are over 40 look like you are on holidays and casually dressed expect a dog handler to direct their dog to you for a "random" search harassment/public humiliation.


Perhaps you should stop insisting that anyone who is searched is guilty. This will eventually lead to a change in the social response seen in others. The end result will be a reduction in the feeling of 'public humiliation'. Perhaps you could work to encourage the wider public to see it as something to be proud of.

Maccain09 wrote:
Do we have any lawyers or folk that know a little bit about this caper to provide advice on regards to your rights as a tax payer and human being?


Are you honestly suggesting that the use of drug detection dogs is a human rights issue? Perhaps your efforts should be spent on encouraging others not to carry drugs into the festival grounds. If nobody carries banned substances into the festival grounds, there will be a greatly reduced requirement for police activity.

I was at the Melbourne BBQ Festival on Sunday evening and didn't see a single drug detection dog. The only smoking was done in large custom-built BBQs. The only issues were with long lines and limited supply of meat.
Maccain09
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 10:49:47 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/12/2009
Posts: 831
Points: -1,814
Location: Palmerston,


If a member of the public is minding his own business and walking into a festival with let's say his young daughter to escort her for the day and some half witted dog handler doesn't like the look of him points his dog to the parent, the parent automatically gets searched and humiliated in front of his kid. To top it off the patron is then obligated to pass on his information to be put into some type of data base after the negative search as the vast majority of these searches are negative as per the police stats on the matter (80% fail rate).

What can members of the general public do to avoid such harassment ?

As for the last two responses on this - thank you for your input!

However some comments from those less tolerant to the erosion of civil rights would be appreciated.

Was standing next to some kid at the last festival I attended (being searched again with nothing on me) and the kid commented to me after he also tested negative that he had swallowed 3 pills went being searched and he was worried as it was his first time experimenting ..., this whole episode ruined my day completely, I just hope the kid was okay, there's far too many negatives associated with the process its not in the best interest of the general public.

If you're advice is "if you don't want to be searched then don't go to festivals, point taken and please keep this kind of braindead type information to yourself.

I'm sure some information on the subject would be appreciated from any ex police or lawyers or civil rights activists or medicinal marijuanna patents.
mpember
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 11:39:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/16/2008
Posts: 543
Points: -117
Maccain09 wrote:
What can members of the general public do to avoid such harassment?


Take as much action as possible to remove the underlying 'cause' for such action. The reason there re no metal detectors at the gate is that there is no perceived need for them. Festivals should not be used as a place to experiment with unknown substances (and that includes poor tasting beer). Why should Bluesfest be forced to wear the burden of the health risks associated with such a practise? Do it in the privacy of your own home or admit that coming to a festival may mean going without drugs for a few hours.

Maccain09 wrote:
However some comments from those less tolerant to the erosion of civil rights would be appreciated.

The 'erosion' starts when you take it as acceptable for someone to enter the festival grounds with an illegal substance. Why should others be impacted by the police action taken as a result of a third party who sees themselves as above or beyond the current laws?

Bluesfest currently checks ID as proof of age to meet the requirements of their liquor license. This is seen as an action taken to reduce the chance of someone under the age of 18 obtaining alcohol. At previous festivals (Falls in Tassie is an extreme example), police have opted to breath test drivers leaving the festival grounds. Do you agree that these actions are acceptable? Is your issue simply with the use of sniffer dogs? Would you prefer that all entrants to the festival grounds be subject to a trace detection method similar to those seen at airports. This would remove the dog and any chance of 'profiling'.

Maccain09 wrote:
If you're advice is "if you don't want to be searched then don't go to festivals


Not my advice at all. As stated previously, my advice is to remove the need for the police action. Discourage people for bringing banned substances into the festival and make it socially unacceptable for those who choose to flaunt the law to cause such an impost on others.
Maccain09
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 12:07:41 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/12/2009
Posts: 831
Points: -1,814
Location: Palmerston,
No surprise re the last post - jeeez...

Yeah!! let's not let in anyone that uses illicit substances into the festival - does this include performers? Problem is Then there would be no festival ... Fact of life - people take drugs at festivals it enhances the experience for some. Some folk may not be as lucky as others and may have very mundane drone like or highly stressful jobs - unable to loosen up they might smoke a spliff or drop a pill - that's their business - there's millions of them out there - on stage and off, more power to them if they are not bothering anyone. Doesn't give spotty kids with low iq's holding a dog lead the right to ruin innocent people's days - what's hard to understand about that? Best of luck with your tee totalers fest - sounds like a riot ... You might have missed out on the wailers last year methinks (your loss).
bluesfestadmin
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 12:25:49 PM
Rank: Administration
Groups: Administration

Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 649
Points: -1,477
There have been at least 2 deaths from drugs taken at festivals in the last few months.

Many of us who work at Bluesfest - and other events have exprerienced incidents where people have overindulged in drug taking which would likely have
ended in a fatality without intervention by event medical and security staff.

You simply do not know what you are taking when you take a pill - can you REALLY trust a dealer, whose motivation is profit ?
Studies find that the majority of drugs sold as Ecstacy at events are not in fact MDMA (Ecstacy), which taking too much of can cause death, that's why they are now calling it Molly - because it has a bad rap as to what is really in it - there are closely aligned drugs which regularly take longer for the process to occur which causes a high - causing over doses to occur with people who think they are not working. They also cause an alarming increase in body temperature which can cause heart attacks.

These are facts.

Whilst people continue to flippantly promote drug useage these deaths will continue.

moderator
mpember
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 12:26:10 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/16/2008
Posts: 543
Points: -117
Maccain09 wrote:
Best of luck with your tee totalers fest - sounds like a riot ... You might have missed out on the wailers last year methinks (your loss).


I have no issue with the dogs, so I'll be a BF this year. I'm not the one calling for a change in the current police activity or those of others. I am suggesting that if you are truly seeking a dog-free event, you may have to think outside the box and look for ways to remove the underlying reason for the police action instead of expecting the authorities to let it go at your behest.

If you think the 'solution' is a public that is better informed of their rights with regards to sniffer dogs, then I look forward to your future posts with further details. Until then, can we just agree to disagree until there are more concrete signs that NSW Police or BF are in any position to review the policy? There is little chance of a thread on this forum creating a groundswell of support for your cause. It isn't like 'chairgate'. There are too many views on the topic for a consensus to be reached.

Are you of the opinion that others on this forum are unaware of the situation and it is only by reading your posts that they will 'see the light'?
Space5279
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 3:26:27 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/18/2010
Posts: 713
Points: 467
Location: Melbourne
Hey guys

I can see both sides of your arguments here. From Maccain's point of view, once again the free spirited pot smoking festival goer may get targeted as some sort of 'terrorist' (not really sure why authorities have issues with people just chilling out with a few numbers) However that is the law and if the bulk of the people aren't bringing in any illicit substances, then they won't be 'humiliated' by a search because there will be no search as the sniffer dogs will have nothing to sniff out.

What of the rights of those that do bring in some greenery....well under current law there are none. Having said all of that, I've smoked a couple of J's the last few years and I have never been bothered by police or dogs or any authority, because I don't look like I'd be one to carry. I go and have a smoke in a place away from anyone outside the gate and then just wander back in. I don't go on some sort of freakout rampage around the site, I just stand back and enjoy the vibes.

Anyway, just play it cool and everyting will be everyting!

"...wild Jamaican's from Kingston drinking Irish Moss
Listening to Peter Winston Macintosh..."
bluesfestadmin
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 3:48:48 PM
Rank: Administration
Groups: Administration

Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 649
Points: -1,477
In the end it is not about marihuana use

IT IS about people taking drugs, particulary Ecstasy and variants at events and dying.

Whilst that continues to occur - police with dogs will see justification in drug prevention actions
InfidelRider
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 4:06:41 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/13/2013
Posts: 87
Points: 188
We seem to be forgetting something here. Won't somebody think of the koalas?
Maccain09
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 5:36:19 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/12/2009
Posts: 831
Points: -1,814
Location: Palmerston,
MDMA - ice - smack - crack - chat - coke - blow - pingers - zingers etc all bad stuff ... Dangerous stuff can cause death. Not what we are talking about here

If posters could get off their high horses/soapboxes etc, we are talking about 80% of the innocent people that are being harassed/searched -

yes the police will be a permanent fixture : accepted. What rights do patrons have? - how can they speed up the intimidation process?

does the festival have plans to protect the 80%'s privacy / reputation / dignity by allocating these goons an area to search intimidate / harass innocent people rather than do it in public view?

I was lectured again last week by some kid dressed as police, I advised her that the dog was directed to me by the handler when asked why the dog picked me? when I offered to be strip searched she took that as me questioning her sexuality ?

Clearly dealing with people with major personal issues dressed as police who have state allocated authority to publicly accuse you of being a criminal is not a pleasant experience .... And somewhat unnecessary given they get it wrong more often than not!!





mpember
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 6:55:30 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/16/2008
Posts: 543
Points: -117
Maccain09 wrote:
Dangerous stuff can cause death. Not what we are talking about here

It may not be what you are talking about, but that does not mean we all have to cherry pick the topic as a means to justify vilification of police who are just doing their job. You have used a number of derogatory and inflammatory terms which suggests that you are unable to accept any valid reason for police and the drug detection dogs to exist anywhere that you may be in the vicinity of.

Maccain09 wrote:
Clearly dealing with people with major personal issues dressed as police

Is there any chance of you checking your personal disdain for police at the door?

Maccain09 wrote:
If posters could get off their high horses/soapboxes

There is only one soapbox in this thread and I don't think you have left much room for others to join you.

Will you ever accept that the obvious way to remove detection dogs from festivals is to eliminate drug use at festivals?
bambambam
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 7:14:58 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/6/2011
Posts: 799
Points: 1,264
Location: Gold Coast
Here's a muso that likes a toke,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRUHYKZ9248&index=49&list=PLTtM96PSK0ttQLHRKsLSX_4T3SXW7uObv

I noticed Wil Anderson has also appeared on this show....

Write a wise saying and your name will live on forever,,, Anonymous
Maccain09
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 9:12:36 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/12/2009
Posts: 831
Points: -1,814
Location: Palmerston,
Re bambaman - that's one disturbing show - can't believe it exists - fantastic !

On another note I care more about the young people that may in a panic swallow a large quantity of drugs due to the presence of dogs etc - fact of life drugs will always be used at festivals.

http://www.unharm.org/harm_reduction_smarter_not_harder

http://m.smh.com.au/nsw/drug-searches-thousands-falsely-identified-by-sniffer-dogs-20141129-11wlty.html

http://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/sniffer-dogs-scipione/

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2796901/sniffer-dogs-fail-drugs-arrest-test/
drwildare
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 10:40:11 PM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 10/21/2008
Posts: 291
Points: 672
Location: Ormiston, QLD
Maccain09 wrote:
MDMA - ice - smack - crack - chat - coke - blow - pingers - zingers etc all bad stuff ... Dangerous stuff can cause death. Not what we are talking about here

If posters could get off their high horses/soapboxes etc, we are talking about 80% of the innocent people that are being harassed/searched -

yes the police will be a permanent fixture : accepted. What rights do patrons have? - how can they speed up the intimidation process?

does the festival have plans to protect the 80%'s privacy / reputation / dignity by allocating these goons an area to search intimidate / harass innocent people rather than do it in public view?

I was lectured again last week by some kid dressed as police, I advised her that the dog was directed to me by the handler when asked why the dog picked me? when I offered to be strip searched she took that as me questioning her sexuality ?

Clearly dealing with people with major personal issues dressed as police who have state allocated authority to publicly accuse you of being a criminal is not a pleasant experience .... And somewhat unnecessary given they get it wrong more often than not!!







Oh Maccain you really make me laugh at your totally ridiculous statements. There is absolutely no relationship between a police officer walking a drug detection dog past you and being accused of being a criminal. If you have nothing to hide you have absolutely nothing to fear.
You also seem not to respect police officers by stating some kid dressed as a police. By that statement I would guess you are in your 50's or 60's or even older and therefore a twenty something to you is a kid. Perhaps the reason you were lectured was because you did not show
the police officer respect that they deserved.

The Dr is in the House.

PS if you don't like the drug detection dogs don't go to Bluesfest or anyother festival. Perhaps you would also take offense to bomb detecting dogs as well.
Maccain09
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 11:06:48 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/12/2009
Posts: 831
Points: -1,814
Location: Palmerston,
Sounds like some posters here are simply trolls (if that's the term) 80% of those searched are innocent don't they deserve not to be publicly humiliated by being searched and harassed in front of their kids for instance - only an utter moron would find this practice acceptable or a complete zombie gamer type (just a guess).. As for my initial post - I was not carrying drugs of any description yet some half wit thought it was in my best interests to be lectured about carrying stuff...

Story= me no carry the drugs ... Not okay to be searched in public if me no carry ... Simple stuff and I'm thick skinned I fear for the less capable ..

So I would suggest when asked why the dog picked u (seems to be the line these pests use) a good response might be that the dog can smell my dogs scent or the scent of a pussy cat or zoo type habitants ... This should be enough to speed up the humiliation process ....

No issues with bomb dogs working in war zones to save innocent life's - no issues with traffic lights or even speed cameras either. I suggest if your only advice to fellow attendees is to stay at home you'd be best off at some one nation party rally with other like minded intellects ....
Maccain09
Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 11:22:32 PM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/12/2009
Posts: 831
Points: -1,814
Location: Palmerston,
http://themusic.com.au/news/all/2014/07/14/art-vs-science-want-sniffer-dogs-banned-from-splendour-in-the-grass/

Interesting article - would be good to see some adult comments on the subject as opposed to the usual drones with their broken record type responses ... No offence meant just lets see what someone else has to add to this issue that affects this and all festivals
mpember
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 12:56:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/16/2008
Posts: 543
Points: -117
Maccain09 wrote:
Sounds like some posters here are simply trolls

I agree. With abusive comments like this...
Maccain09 wrote:
.. only an utter moron would find this practice acceptable ..

Maccain09 wrote:
.. some half wit ..

.. it is quite easy to label the writer as a troll who is simple looking for a cause to use as the basis for attacking the reputation and standing of members of the NSW police force.

Unless you can offer up possible alternatives for reducing the prevalence or drugs at festivals, you will have to wait for someone else comes up with a viable alternative. Until then, the current practise will continue. If you aren't going to be part of the solution, you should not be surprised when others see you as part of the problem.

Maccain09 wrote:
would be good to see some adult comments


I look forward to reading your first example.

Maccain09 wrote:
I suggest if your only advice to fellow attendees is to stay at home you'd be best off at some one nation party rally with other like minded intellects ....

Just so that we are clear, I am recommending that anyone who has an issue with the use of drug detection dogs channel their efforts into removing the underlying reason for their use. Put as much effort into reducing the use of drugs as you do into bashing the reputation of police and we are off to a great start.

To quote your new best mate
Dan MacNamee wrote:
And I urge everyone out there with a strong opinion on something and a suggestion to help make things better to write to their local MPs and heads of relevant ministries.


I take this to mean that he is seeking an alternative method of reducing the overdoses that result from individuals being scared of getting caught and taking all their pills at once. I also think that the easiest way of avoiding an overdose is to not have the drugs on you in the first place. It will avoid any possible need to 'hide' the pills in your stomach as you enter the festival.

Why should the drug takers be given a free pass when they are clearly to blame for the police action? Why should the law-abiding festival goers have to put up with these police actions simply because a small number of patrons think they should be able to take illicit drugs?
c0kebloke
Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 3:28:46 AM
Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/23/2011
Posts: 778
Points: -3,943
Location: Struggletown
Maccain09 wrote:
http://themusic.com.au/news/all/2014/07/14/art-vs-science-want-sniffer-dogs-banned-from-splendour-in-the-grass/

Interesting article - would be good to see some adult comments on the subject as opposed to the usual drones with their broken record type responses ... No offence meant just lets see what someone else has to add to this issue that affects this and all festivals

Why not take the advice given in the article.

“And I urge everyone out there with a strong opinion on something and a suggestion to help make things better to write to their local MPs and heads of relevant ministries.

Rather than bombard a forum with opinions that will get you nowhere.





They got the cocaine, oxycontin, mushrooms, marijuana
Vodka, plastic pop-off, twist one off
Yesterday I smoked, today I don't
Yeah, yeah, yeah


The Ike Reilly Assassination:Valentine's Day In Juárez
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

SoClean Theme Created by Jaben Cargman (Tiny Gecko)
Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.1.8 (NET v2.0) - 3/29/2008
Copyright © 2003-2008 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.
This page was generated in 0.220 seconds.